The Wyre Forest Agenda: Let us pray

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Blessed are we living in a democracy
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See:I'm part of a democracy

http://www.wfa.org.uk/2012/02/27.asp or http://t.co/WJSrDm90

Signal 107 Rough Sleeping

	Monday, 27 February 2012
	Let us pray
	by Tav

Could it be that on Wednesday Wyre Forest District Council will be breaking the law?

Prayers @ Full Council meeting [WFDC]

See 'Pray for your council?' if you don’t know what I'm on about!

Sources:
Full Council 29 February 2012, Final Agenda
The Church of Jedism
Jedi Church
FlipC (2012); 'Ban on council prayers still in place?'; The Mad Ranter, 28 February 2012 1:37pm

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Meetings | Religion

Comments:

Tav
26 Feb 2012 Thinking about this... Since the press and public are not summoned to attend council meetings, only to observe (voluntarily), they are not being forced to pray. So if all councillors are happy for a section on the agenda to be 'prayers' of any denomination, I guess it is OK for prayers to continue.

Now if this is the case may I suggest the council invite a Jedi Master to open the next Full Council meeting. According to the 2001 census there are almost 10,000 practicing Jedi's in Herefordshire and Worcestershire:

Jedism in England & Wales

It was the fourth-largest reported religion in England and Wales.

Neil Harman
26 Feb 2012

Yoda could teach our cabal a lot about leadership ;-)

When I contributed at council, I was not informed of the prayers at all. I entered the chamber did not spend this nervous time reading the agenda, rather composing myself. Then a prayer is announced and too late for me to arrange not being present for it. Even though I was sent emails confirming my attendance. I would most likely have preferred to enter after prayer [of any religion], not before. I am not necessarily against it, but I was de-facto forced to pray that day.

FlipC
27 Feb 2012

It doesn't make a difference whether or not attendance is voluntary (which it wouldn't be as it's listed as being officially part of the meeting) it's the fact that prayer doesn't "facilitate, or is conducive or incidental to, the discharge of any of their functions" and as such cannot be included as part of the meeting i.e. listed on the agenda.

Again nothing to stop them from praying or inviting someone in to bless them etc.; it just can't be as part of the meeting.

Tav
27 Feb 2012

So the council will be breaking the law then?

Fran Oborski
27 Feb 2012

@Tav: Sorry but this again is where, being out of the Country, you aren't up to speed!

Eric Pickles speeded up the implementation of part of the Localism Act last week and gave Council's an immediate "Power of General Competence" which means that it is now perfectly legal for any Council to say prayers.

What do you make of the clash between Kevin Rudd and the PM in Australia?

Tav
28 Feb 2012

OK Fran, I'm just going to travel to Wyre Forest and get some information. However, before I do I'll just do a check on the Internet:

"The communities secretary has fast-tracked the parliamentary order activating the power, hoping it will "give councils that want to continue holding formal prayers the confidence and legal standing to do so"."

Did he? "...Eric Pickles brought forward his Localism Act, due to become law in April 2012, and made it law on 17 February 2012."

...arh but,

"A number of senior lawyers have expressed doubt whether the Localism Act will, as Mr Pickles hopes, make prayers lawful, and the Act was clearly not passed with that express intention.", Keith Porteous Wood, Executive Director of the National Secular Society

...um, let's look at the local(ish) media (biased or not)...

Councillors are prepared to defy the law and carry on saying their prayers." (my bolding)

Wow, I guess I don�t need to leave my computer after all, I found out all I need without being in Wyre Forest! Eric Pickles thinks his fast-tracking has allowed prayers, senior lawyers reckon he hasn't, and the local media think prayers on the agenda is breaking the law! By the way, I'm still in the UK.

Fran: "What do you make of the clash between Kevin Rudd and the PM in Australia?"

You mean, "[Julia] Gillard yesterday would not rule out demotions of key cabinet ministers who supported Kevin Rudd, claiming any changes would be based on merit."? I guess we will have to wait and see what happens, but this is the Wyre Forest Agenda, not the Australian Agenda. However, amazingly the other day I was discussing (via email) with a sitting district councillor (of Wyre Forest) about how an Australian MP was playing solitaire on her iPad. Even more amazing the conversation and exchange of links and photos happened without the need for air travel!

walkerno5
27 Feb 2012

Good to see Pickles is taking care of the important stuff. Those vicars must bring exceedingly good cakes.

FlipC
28 Feb 2012

Next up on the meeting's agenda: The really cute thing that Cllr. X's cats did; followed by some really good baking tips.

Quite possible if the limitation to that which is relevant to council proceedings is lifted. Except of course it doesn't appear that's the case.

"If exercise of a pre-commencement power of a local authority is subject to restrictions, those restrictions apply also to exercise of the general power so far as it is overlapped by the pre-commencement power." s111 of the Local Government Act 1972 is a pre-commencement power it therefore limits the general power outlined in the Localism Act 2011. Unless it alters s111 directly - which it doesn't; ta da!

walkerno5
28 Feb 2012

This is exactly as oppressive as not being allowed to have a juggler on before the meeting.

FlipC
28 Feb 2012

Not quite; this is exactly as oppressive as not being allowed to have a juggler on as part of the meeting.

Damnit' if our council wants to fill up the meeting with jugglers and people making balloon animals then Pickles thinks they should be able to do that.

Tav
3 Mar 2012

Please don’t tell Stephen Clee [unelected Chairman of the Council, Conservative] that a non-Tory is globophobic (fear of balloons/balloon animals), he may just add it to the agenda.

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